Auntie Janey’s Old-Fashioned Agony Column #37: Presumptuous guy friends and bitter girl friends
Dearest Lovely Auntie Janey,
I always seek your advice every time I go through emotional stress. I wrote you twice before and you just have the right words.
Going to my story: I had a guy friend whom I knew for 6 years. I met him through a girl friend. The guy friend, let’s call him Octavio, and I were close. But we just went out thrice during those 6 years. We used to exchange text messages and emails. Four years ago he left the country to work abroad. After that I never heard from him. But when he came home in 2009, he called me up and we met for dinner. It was fun and I was comfortable being with him.
When he left we still communicated. He is a responsible man, a good son and a reliable friend. Fast forward to 2010. I left the country too. The country he lives in now is just a one-hour plane ride from the country where I am. He called me and we exchanged emails. We talked about our plans.
For my birthday this year, I invited him to come over. I thought he would never take my invitation seriously. He said he would but I never believed him. On my birthday I received a phone call from him: he was at the airport! I was happy that he remembered me. So he came to the house and joined the party with my family and friends. During the party, while I was in the kitchen, I heard my friends ask Octavio, “Why are you here? Do you like her?”
I heard Octavio say that he liked me and he planned to move to my country or ask me to move to his. Octavio went back home that night. You will tell me, “Haba ng hair mo! Pumunta lang para sa birthday mo! Gumastos pa ng air ticket!” Well I don’t care. When he left, my high school friend Jolli, started asking me if I liked the guy. She told me that I should like him because I’m already 26 and I might end up a spinster. She even told me, “If I had no boyfriend now and Octavio came along, I would get Octavio”. I said, “Then go get him.”
Jolli even told me, “Ang arte-arte mo, feeling mo ang ganda-ganda mo. Bakit ang choosy-choosy mo?” She kept telling me that for the entire night. Nakakapika. But okay, since we were friends, I had to be patient.
A day after my birthday, I emailed Octavio expressing my gratitude. The email exchange led to his saying that he loved me and that he wanted me to move to his country or he could move to mine. (Did I ever approve of that? Did I ever say I liked him back? NO!). He told me, “I thought we had something.” (Assuming?) And after that email I never spoke to him again. Never.
I realized I don’t like Octavio. I don’t care if I end up being an old maid. First, Octavio never confessed his feelings for me in person. Yes, he told my friends about it, and he emailed me, but never told me straight to my face. And his plan of having me move to his country? If I liked him, I might consider it. But no, I will never do that. He told me, “I thought we had something, I’ve known you for almost 6 years, I thought that was enough.” I may be sweet but sorry, I was not flirting.
And I was so offended by what Jolli said. It was not the first time she told me “Ang arte-arte mo, feeling mo, ang ganda-ganda mo.” It would be okay if she said that twice or thrice but she kept repeating it. And I feel humiliated whenever her friends hear it.
Auntie Janey, after that birthday I haven’t spoken with Octavio and or gone out with Jolli. My attitude is, I can go on with my life without talking to you or seeing you for centuries. And I don’t know why I am so good at that. Do you think I am a bitch?
Bitching around,
Future Beautiful & Choosy Spinster
Dear Future Beautiful and Choosy Spinster,
“What are beeches for but to beech around fellow beeches.”
You must be stunningly beautiful. If Helen of Troy’s face could launch a thousand ships, yours could make a man buy a plane ticket.
Based on your narration of facts (we have no way of getting the guy’s side of the story), Octavio was too presumptuous for comfort. You did the right thing.
Expecting something in return for something is standard in business and professional relationships. It is how business is done. But intentionally doling out gifts or going out of your way to do a favor because you are expecting to get friendship or love is just sad and manipulative.
In friendship or in love, you give because you want to give. Not because you wanted a gift or something else in return. If you desperately want a gift, buy one for yourself. And in case you desperately need romancing, there’s, um, self-sufficiency.
Lately I have learned to be wary of people who generously give me stuff without the slightest provocation. Most of the time these people employ the utang na loob technique. After giving you stuff, these people proceed to treat you like crap and expect you to be subservient. Ex-friends, relatives and certain acquaintances have done and are attempting to do this to me. I think that my reputation of being a dick and an ingrate is slowly spreading, much to my delight.
I also approve of your disengaging yourself from bitter Jolli. It’s nice to have friends who will honestly point out your flaws for your sake. But there are those who attempt to impose their values on you or make you feel inadequate for their own selfish reasons. One should learn to identify and avoid the latter group. Friends pull you back in when you are losing your way. Slave drivers tie you to their carts and whip you if you stumble on the way to their destination.
Keep your interactions with bitter people to a minimum. They have the habit of dousing your joy and infecting you with their negativity. Nakakapanget sila. Always think of your happiness. Self-interest always governs all.
Truly Yours,
Auntie Janey
Would you like Auntie Janey to meddle in your life? Email agoniesforauntiejaney@gmail.com.
Answers to questions you might be asking, unless you wandered onto this site purely by accident >>>
November 25th, 2011 at 09:23
I don’t agree with Auntie Janey, I think you did the wrong thing here. Octavio acted that way because I think he was unfamiliar with the ways of romance. He thought that a grand gesture would make you all mushy inside and fall for him, like in the movies. I think that he was shy, the way he has been shy for the past six years. It took a lot of courage in him to do what he did. I was not surprised that he expressed his intentions through an email. It didn’t make it less true or less sincere.
I don’t mean to sound preachy but you are young, you think that there are many guys out there or you don’t mind being alone. You won’t feel that way forever. Good guys are hard to come by. My advice to you is to not shut him off completely. Talk to him. Tell him that you were caught by surprised. Ask him to give you time. If after some time you still think that you can live your life without him, be honest, but be prepared to lose him forever.
November 25th, 2011 at 15:26
na-sad ako sa story. you lost 2 friends after your bday celebration?
November 25th, 2011 at 17:50
ako rin disagree kay Tita Janey. una sa lahat, bigla mo na lang shang hindi kinausap pagkatapos nyang sabihin sa iyo na “I thought we had something.” Hindi ka ba man lang na-curious bakit nya naramdaman yon? Parang medyo selfish na sa perspective mo lang tinitignan ang situation. Jusme, bumili ng ticket! Para lang makita ka!
Isa pa: masyado kang ma-pride, hija. Sinabihan ka lang na mahal ka tapos gusto nyang lumipat jan o ikaw ang lumipat don, ang resbak mo bigla “Did I ever approve of that? Did I ever say I liked him back? NO!” E bakit di mo kaya kausapin? Malay mo sajestion lang yon no. Kung sa tingin mo assuming sya, assumera ka rin sa pagkakataong yon, kasi in-assume mo na yun nga talaga ang eksaktong naiisip nya.
Sa tingin ko naman, kung wala ka talagang pakialam na tumandang dalaga, o ke Octavio, hindi ka susulat ke Tita Janey. So ang sajestion ko saio, konting pagpapakumbaba at pang-unawa sa susunod. Hindi ko naman sinasabing pakasalan mo si Octavio. Ang sa akin lang, siguro mas nagkaron ng linaw ang mga bagay na gustong ma-achive ni Octavio kung hindi mo sha binagsakan ng pinto nung dumating shang may dalang mga rosas, so to speak.
Tungkol naman ke Jolli, kumain na lang kamo sha para may laman bibig nya. Alam mo naman na maganda ka, hindi nya na dapat ulit-ulitin pa. Magpaganda din sha kamo, para sha naman ang ginagastusan ng plane ticket.
November 25th, 2011 at 18:00
lovet.
“Expecting something in return for something is standard in business and professional relationships. It is how business is done. But intentionally doling out gifts or going out of your way to do a favor because you are expecting to get friendship or love is just sad and manipulative.”
True! and sad too.
ive seen this done in a Christian group setting – to gather members – and in the lives of people too.
most of us live our lives as business transactions now.
kracle — how do u know octavio is unfamiliar with the ways of romance? & if he is – who cares? it’s not what you think octavio is or is not — it’s what he did or didnt do at that specific moment which is critical.
Future Beautiful & Choosy Spinster – if being true to yourself means being a bitch – then maybe you are.
Auntie Janey — maybe ur a dude nga because you called yourself a dick.
Dear Auntie Janey, what if “..those who attempt to impose their values on you or make you feel inadequate” are your parents?
November 25th, 2011 at 20:08
Yup, I agree with Kracle: give Octavio a chance. Octavio, as described in your letter, doesn’t seem like a jerk. Jerks will not fly all the way to another country only to attend a girl’s birthday. Yes, he is assuming, but that’s because he knows and I’m sure you also know deep down that what the two of you share isn’t just platonic. He just too slow and didn’t act on his feelings for you immediately.
I can understand your frustration but Ovtavio is not the prototype guy who will profess his feelings face to face, give you flowers, etc. although he has some elements of a prototype man like flying to another country for a girl. He’s probably too shy, too careful or too scared to admit his feelings upfront. Do not put too much pressure on what men should be. We are in a world. Some men do not profess out their romantic feelings out loud. That’s the way it is. Take it or leave it.
I were in your shoes (and I’d be happy to because there are but a few worthy guys out there), I will tell him to be a man and profess his love by ACTING on it. The birthday visit will not suffice. He should be consistent. I will definitely talk to him again. I will not shut him out. But if it turns out that he’s not worth it after all, then at least I will not look back and regret not giving him a chance. I will peace of mind. Regrets are like cancer. It can be in a dormant stage for years, but when it gets triggered by circumstances, it lashes out its wrath and destroys you.
Giving him a chance wouldn’t hurt. But of course you also need to do your part. It takes two person to make a relationship work. Hindi na uso yung nagpapahabol, nagpapahirap sa lalake para alamin kung totoo yung intention niya. Work things out hand in hand with a guy.
Good men are so hard to come by these days. I think you’re just saying that you’re okay being a spinster because you’re confident that Ocvatio is just around. Or a new guy will come along. But with that kind of attitude, you’ll be alone forever. But if that’s what you want, then that’s fine. Maybe you’re fated for single blessedness.
P.S. Your ex-friend is probably right. “Ang arte-arte mo, feeling mo, ang ganda-ganda mo.” I think she’s just uneducated and given the opportunity to know any better, she will say, “I think you should give Octavio a chance.” Try to understand that your friend is pedestrian, masa, hoi polloi, part of the great unwashed. She’s just concerned in a jolog sort of way. So take her advice and yeah, don’t be friends with her again. Seek better friends who are sensitive enough and know the right words to say.
November 25th, 2011 at 21:22
it definitely a miss-match good move letter sender! you wouldve been bored bonkers had you jump in
November 26th, 2011 at 02:29
May point si Jolli. Pero di na dapat sha recording, nakaka-backstage ng punchline. That’s not the gay way. And speaking of which, you should have more of our kind for friends. Loosen up, teh.
Standards are good.
Bakit di na lang yung standards mo ang jowain mo?
Wahaha, keme lang ha, love and muahnesses from Pasig Cirehhhh!
November 26th, 2011 at 05:47
Auntie Janey: nasaan ka nung nag anniv? we we looking forward in seeing you in flesh.
Dear Future Beautiful and Choosy Spinster: nagulat ka lang siguro kay octavio. na magagawa nyang lumipad makapiling ka. siguro nagpapapogi/nagpapapansin na rin yun sayo.. yun nga lang pwede ding torpe. hindi nya masabi sayo ng personal na gusto ka nya. eh nag over react ka. . .
dun sa friend mong jolli, (ang ganda ng pangalan nya ah) iwan mo na yan, you will find better human beings. i remember when i went to college, i cut off all forms of communication from people who i NEVER really wanted in my life. parang si jolli they have this irritating, demon like voice that somehow corrupted my mind in making beautiful decisions in my life. when i chose not to connect with this people anymore.. i found my bliss.
November 26th, 2011 at 05:48
and found new,real friends.
November 26th, 2011 at 10:49
We have two words for the flying-in-for-birthday gesture:
Budget airlines.
November 26th, 2011 at 10:57
“In the flesh”.
November 26th, 2011 at 13:19
Wow…6 years and only professed his love for the girl in an email? He must be painfully shy…
But, I think she should’ve given him a chance, kahit usap lang; he doesn’t seem like a total douche, or else she wouldn’t been friends with him for 6 years.
November 26th, 2011 at 17:12
gusto ko yung comment ni ofaj :)
November 27th, 2011 at 00:21
Marami akong kilala na ginagamit yang “utang na loob technique” pero mukhang hindi angkop sa actuations ni Octavio, so disagree ako ki auntie janey.
November 27th, 2011 at 00:59
Wow! I was away for two days and so many dissenting opinions and one concurring opinion. Very interesting points of view. Thank you everyone.
Please allow me to further argue my position on this matter.
I must first point out that a lot of the opinions are based on the fallacy that men who perform grand gestures are good men. This premise alone is faulty and contrary to common human experience.
Grand gestures have great tactical value especially in negotiations and may even indicate sincerity but they are not conclusive proofs of a man’s true character and intent.
Cheezmiss was correct in pointing out the wrongful assumption. What is your basis for saying that Octavio is a good catch? Because he took an airplane? What is your basis for saying that he is not familiar with the ways of romance?
Read the letter very carefully. Begin with the text, and focus on the text and not with the feeling.
The letter-writer mentioned good attributes about the guy and considered him a reliable friend. Where did “Yes, he is assuming, but that’s because he knows and I’m sure you also know deep down that what the two of you share isn’t just platonic” come from? Did the letter-writer say that she was attracted to Octavio? No.
A lot of you said Octavio was shy. He was just too shy to tell her up front what he felt but he had the guts to tell the letter-writer’s friends and relatives that he liked her and that he planned to move into her country or ask her to move to his? He said it a party – a gathering of people some of whom he probably did not know – you call that shy? This may sound shy to you but to me its an attempt to put peer pressure on the letter-writer. Winning over her friends first so that they in turn could win her for him.
” I will tell him to be a man and profess his love by ACTING on it. The birthday visit will not suffice. He should be consistent.” Did the letter-writer ever hint that she wanted to have a relationship with him? Read carefully again. Just the text. What the letter-writer has established is that they had been communicating online for some time and that they had a history. She thought him to be a reliable friend. That’s it. She has no romantic notions of them being together. Therefore, the observation I’ve just quoted and the following obsevations by other dissenters have no basis because they stand on a non-existent premise:
1) Ako rin disagree kay Tita Janey. una sa lahat, bigla mo na lang shang hindi kinausap pagkatapos nyang sabihin sa iyo na “I thought we had something.” hindi ka ba man lang na-curious bakit nya naramdaman yon?;
2) E bakit di mo kaya kausapin? Malay mo sajestion lang yon no. Kung sa tingin mo assuming sya, assumera ka rin sa pagkakataong yon, kasi in-assume mo na yun nga talaga ang eksaktong naiisip nya;
3).He thought that a grand gesture would make you all mushy inside and fall for him, like in the movies;
4) The birthday visit will not suffice. He should be consistent. I will definitely talk to him again. I will not shut him out. But if it turns out that he’s not worth it after all, then at least I will not look back and regret not giving him a chance. I will peace of mind;
5) Giving him a chance wouldn’t hurt. But of course you also need to do your part. It takes two person to make a relationship work;
7) Bakit di na lang yung standards mo ang jowain mo?; and
8) But, I think she should’ve given him a chance, kahit usap lang; he doesn’t seem like a total douche, or else she wouldn’t been friends with him for 6 years.
Seriously, how could you think that the letter-writer was attracted to Octavio. She was very explict when she said “Well I don’t care”. She doesn’t have any feelings for him.
What the letter-writer is actually asking is should she be obliged to return his feelings for her. The answer is a big NO. Nobody should be obligated to feel a certain way for anything. This is my main point.
I do not believe that Octavio is innocent in the ways of romance. The tactic he employed is quite common. Dive in with a grand gesture and then proceed to make the girl guilty into having relations with you. Winning her friends’ approval is part of the scheme. I have seen it done many times. I have somebody very close in my life who is a victim of this. The guy repeatedly crossed the seas (this was the era when there were no budget fares) every weekend for two months to court her. Grand gesture right? But after a month or so after he got the girl, he wanted to break up with her because of “It’s not you, it’s me”. Actually, he got interested in a girl who was on another island. They are married now but the guy recently cheated on her.
Jeffrey is right on one thing. A guy should show consistency. Was there consistency here? No. Then again, why should the letter-writer demand for it? She does not have romantic feelings for him. Why should she care? May karapatan siya mag-inarte.
November 27th, 2011 at 03:54
I must first point out that a lot of the opinions are based on the fallacy that men who perform grand gestures are good men. This premise alone is faulty and contrary to common human experience. — Tell us something we don’t know.
Let me share something I read off of some urinal: “Kapag may alak, may balak.” It may or may not follow, but I just have to share that. Meanwhile, I stopped reading at this point. I don’t like fun-sucking messages. Can’t we be assholes towards someone else’s problems? Isn’t this supposed to be wicked?
Anyway, have a great weekend everyone! Muahness from Pasig Cirehhh!
November 27th, 2011 at 06:13
i agree with auntie janey’s response to the letter-writer and his response to the other comments.
incidentally, i think more people should go and be maarte. mag-inarte ka. i noticed that most people frown upon being “choosy”. i don’t see that as something that should be disapproved. i think being choosy is a value. you set a standard for yourself, and you follow it. and maybe it has its cons, but i like it. i think it makes one grow a spine, makes one be capable of dealing with hard consequences (due to being choosy). and i suspect being choosy is a value that we, as a country, sorely lack. and this results to more harm than good. so go lang. be choosy. whether or not maganda ka. support ko yan.
November 27th, 2011 at 09:52
I just woke up with a start. In my sleep, my subconscious spewed up a memory of something I did years ago. I buried it deep inside me because it triggered spasms of humiliation.
I actually did something akin to Octavio’s grand gesture. Mine was a series of expensive dinners and a very very expensive pen. My strategy was to overwhelm my object of lust with gifts so that the object would not be able to say no to my proposal. I was making sure that I would not be rejected. My line of reasoning was, if the object did not feel the same way that I did, the dinners and the gift would knock some sense into him/ her. People are susceptible to persuasion when large sums of money are spent on them, I thought.
I still got rejected.
So ayun….Hahaha! People in love sometimes employ grand gestures to break down the defenses of their seemingly hesitant objects. The objects basically can react in two ways: 1) If the object had feelings for the pursuer to begin with, the object can tremble with kilig and say “Yes!”; and 2) If the object did not harbor any lust for the pursuer, the object is free to reject the pursuer and is within his/her rights to feel awkward and cornered.
November 28th, 2011 at 20:25
“My strategy was to overwhelm my object of lust with gifts so that the object would not be able to say no to my proposal. I was making sure that I would not be rejected. My line of reasoning was, if the object did not feel the same way that I did, the dinners and the gift would knock some sense into him/ her.”
a classic style employed even by Robert de Niro (as Noodles) in the film Once Upon a Time in America
http://youtu.be/QuD6QCKf1lI
“Noodles tries to impress Deborah on an extravagant date, but he is left feeling rejected when she tells him she is leaving the following night for the West Coast where she plans to further her acting career. He rapes her in the back seat of a limousine, and after Deborah leaves, he is left regretting what he has done.”wikpedia